When should federal AI rules replace state safeguards? Zvi Mowshowitz argues that Anthropic’s proposed bill could remove protections months before federal requirements are ready, while making stronger legislation harder to pass later. He joins hosts Prakash Narayanan and Nathan Labenz to discuss preemption, emergency powers, and why interpretability progress alone cannot substitute for enforceable oversight.
The conversation also explores whether cleaner neurons can improve AI monitoring, how models can learn to detect internal monitoring, and whether strong activations could enable training without backpropagation. The hosts then turn to AI power-seeking, bank cybersecurity, the resilience of financial records, and the challenges AI agents pose to the threat of prosecution.
Show Notes
Zvi Mowshowitz, author of Don’t Worry About the Vase, joins Prakash Narayanan and Nathan Labenz to discuss Anthropic’s proposed AI bill, state preemption, and whether federal oversight could leave a gap in protections. They also examine AI interpretability and monitoring, power-seeking, backpropagation-free training, and how bank cybersecurity and AI agents could challenge existing safeguards.
Chapters
(0:00) The gap in AI oversight
(2:14) Cleaner neurons could improve AI monitoring
(3:46) Strong activations could unlock backprop-free training
(6:03) Helpful AI may still seek power
(7:30) Deleting AI pain could alter other behaviors
(9:23) Meet Zvi Mowshowitz of Don’t Worry About the Vase
(10:14) Anthropic’s draft bill could leave an oversight gap
(12:44) Preemption is a big thing to give up
(16:27) Congress cannot trade away state authority twice
(19:55) Emergency powers too weak for anyone to use
(22:50) AI research could shrink model cycles to weeks
(27:07) Readable neurons still don’t predict the model
(32:51) Models can learn to detect their monitors
(35:48) Optimizing what you see teaches models to hide
(39:20) Only two labs earn deep access to your computer
(42:40) Anthropic’s safety culture is graded on a curve
(44:52) Keep state safeguards until the federal brake works
(46:42) Bank hacks could trigger wider deposit flight
(48:07) Can FDIC rescues handle corrupted bank records?
(49:54) AI agents weaken the threat of prosecution
(50:22) Who will pay to save old PHP websites?
(51:41) Paper bank records offer a cybersecurity fallback
Guests
Zvi Mowshowitz — Author, Don’t Worry About the Vase (𝕏)
